The Deity of Christ from the Old Testament for our Jehovah’s Witness, Mormon, and Muslim friends, part 2.

Today we are going to pick up where we left off from the last article you can read it here.  Earlier we examined Genesis 15:1-2 to see that the Word of the Lord is God.  We also connected these verses with John 1:1-18 to see that the Word is Jesus.  Today we are going to look at Genesis 15:3-7 which will reinforce our previous assertion that the Word of the Lord is God, Jesus is the Word, and Jesus is God.  [The text in the brackets is mine.]  The blue text indicates who is doing the action and the red is what is being done.

Genesis 15:3-7 (NASB) 3 And Abram said, “Since You have given no offspring to me, one born in my house is my heir.” 4 Then behold, the word of the Lord came to him, saying,

[If you notice, the person doing the talking is identified as “the word of the Lord.”  You can tell he is a person because he is, “saying.”  The word of the Lord is speaking to Abram.]

“This man will not be your heir; but one who will come forth from your own body, he shall be your heir.” 5 And He took him outside and said,

[Notice the Word is referred to as, “He.”  What did He do?  He, “took him outside and said…”  How can anyone look at these verses and not come to the conclusion that the Word of the Lord is God, and how can they, in light of John 1:1-18 not see that Jesus is the Word and He is God?]

“Now look toward the heavens, and count the stars, if you are able to count them.” And He said to him, “So shall your descendants be.” 6  Then he believed in the Lord; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness. 7 And He said to him, “I am the Lord who brought you out of Ur of the Chaldeans, to give you this land to possess it.

If this isn’t enough, I’ll post some more later on.  Study the word, to know the Word, and His intent.  Knowing Him is knowing God.  To know God, and be known by Him, to be His adopted child and heir, is to be saved by this Triune God’s grace according to His sovereign will, regenerating and indwelling by His Spirit, and the justifying work on the cross of His Son.

The Deity of Christ from the Old Testament for our Jehovah’s Witness, Mormon, and Muslim friends.

lamb

I don’t know how many times I’ve heard the same accusation from Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons (LDS), and Muslims.  They claim that Jesus is not God, but a god, good man, prophet, teacher, and so on.  I think it is great that we can always go to the word of God to let it make the defense.  Charles Spurgeon was quoted as saying, “The Word of God is like a lion. You don’t have to defend a lion. All you have to do is let the lion loose, and the lion will defend itself.”  I agree with him.

With that being said let’s take a look at Genesis 15:1-2, and John 1:1-18.

In Genesis 15:1-2 we see that the word of the LORD came to Abram in a vision. Now, you don’t hear a vision. You see it. Some people would insist that this is just Abram hearing God speak to him, but this is actually the preincarnate Christ appearing to Abram in a vision, and speaking to him. Abram said, “…O LORD God…” or אֲדֹנָי ’ăḏônây; an emphatic form of âḏôn; or (shortened) אָדֹן ’adon; from an unused root (meaning to rule); sovereign, i.e. controller (human or divine): — lord, master, owner. Compare also names beginning with “Adoni-”.; the Lord (used as a proper name of God only): — (my) Lord. In this section of God’s word ăḏônây is used in conjunction with יְהוָֹה yhwh; (the) self-Existent or Eternal; name of God: — the Lord. So essentially he is saying, Adonai YHWH or Sovereign eternal self-existent one and only true God.  It is obvious that Abram believed the word of the LORD to be the one true, eternal, and self-existent God.

We can look at John 1:1-18 and see who John said the Word of God is. Again, it is obvious that Jesus is the Word.

John 1:1-18 (NASB) 1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2  He was in the beginning with God. 3  All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4  In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. 5  The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
The Witness John
6 There came a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7  He came  as a witness, to testify about the Light, so that all might believe through him. 8   He was not the Light, but he came to testify about the Light.
9 There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13  who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
The Word Made Flesh
14 And the Word became flesh, and  dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth. 15 John *testified about Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.’” 16 For of His fullness we have all received, and grace upon grace. 17 For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ. 18  No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

Jesus is not a god like the Mormons say.  He was not Michael the angel transfigured like the Jehovah’s Witnesses would tell you.  He was not just a prophet like Muslims claim.  If there is any doubt now that Jesus is the Word, and the Word is God, it is not due to lack of evidence.  It is due to disbelief.  May God grant you true and saving faith in the Savior, Jesus Christ our Lord and God.

 

NO OTHER GODS!!! REPENT OF YOUR HERESY!!!

trinity-1

There are no other true gods anywhere. There are none in other solar systems. There are none on any other planets. There is no true god except for the God of the Bible, and He is triune. If you deny these truths, you are not Christian, but an idolator! You have made up a god to believe in, and you are in a very very very bad sin. Believing in the wrong god will not save you. It will damn you to Hell! Please repent of your Mormon beliefs! I love my LDS friends, and desperately don’t want you to go to Hell. Some of you, who I maintain ties with, are exceedingly nice people. I’d love for you to become true brothers in Christ.

Mormonism teaches that there are potentially an infinite number of gods, and currently there are countless ones ruling countless solar systems/planets.  Mormonism teaches that the only eternal things are matter and intellect.  It claims that its people worship only the god of this world/solar system.

The Bible says the god of this world is Satan.  The Bible is clear that there is only one true God.  He created everything.  That includes all solar systems and worlds.  Logic dictates that there would have to be one original originator.  If there were many gods there would be no true god among them.  God cannot share His power with other gods, nor can He be known as many gods.  He is one God in trinity.

For the Jehovah’s Witnesses, and Assemblies of Yahweh cult members, repent of your Aryanism! You and the Mormons share this in common.  You believe that Christ is not the second personage of the Trinity, but rather a created being. You believe in a lie. You must repent! Read the Old Testament, keeping an eye out for the Christophanies. If you do that, you will see Christ from the beginning. Read John 1:1-14. How can you study the Bible and believe such lies about Christ our God, Saviour, Lord/Master κῦρος, Prophet, Priest, Prince, and King?

“Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: ‘I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me. ‘Who is like Me? Let him proclaim and declare it; Yes, let him recount it to Me in order, From the time that I established the ancient nation. And let them declare to them the things that are coming And the events that are going to take place. ‘Do not tremble and do not be afraid; Have I not long since announced it to you and declared it? And you are My witnesses. Is there any God besides Me, Or is there any other Rock? I know of none.'”

Have you ever chatted with a mormon on their website?

mormonchat

Have you ever chatted with a mormon on their website?  I just did.  I had two simple questions.  Where did God come from, and did He have a body of flesh and bone?  As a Christian, I know that God has no beginning or end.  I know that He is the uncaused causation of all things.  I know that He has never not been and will always be.  I also know that God the Father is spirit and must be worshipped in spirit.  He has no body.

The chat started out with two mormons in the chat.  One was named Kyle the other was Tyler.  As I began asking my questions Kyle became the main responder.  Kyle was giving very evasive non-answers to my questions.  It was as if the mormon church had no answers for my questions officially.  When I explained the eternality of God, Kyle immediately left the chat and a new person named Alec joined.  Then Tyler became the main responder to my questions.  He paraphrased his partner’s previous noncommittal answers.  When I was satisfied that I had received as much of an answer as I was going to get, I ended the conversation.

I wanted them to answer the questions because I didn’t want to misrepresent their beliefs.  After talking with them, it is easy to see how people would misrepresent them.  Their indefinite official stance on what their church doesn’t know is quite frustrating.  The following is a transcript of the conversation;

“Thank you for your interest in chatting with a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
What would you like to talk about?

B
Did God always exist as God, or did He at some point in time not exist as He does now?
8:29 PM

Now chatting with Tyler & Kyle
T
Hi Bob!
8:31 PM

B
Hello.
8:31 PM

T
How are you tonight Bob?
8:31 PM

B
Fine, how are you?
8:31 PM

T
I’m doing well. Thanks.
8:32 PM
What brought you onto Mormon.org tonight?

B
Did God always exist as God, or did He at some point in time not exist as He does now?
8:34 PM
you guys still there?
8:40 PM

K
That is a great question! To be honest, we don’t know too much about the origin of God. Some leaders of the Church have taught that God progressed from a man to Godhood.
8:41 PM
Sorry about the delay.
We are here.

B
What was He before He was God?
8:42 PM

T
Like what Kyle said earlier, that’s one topic that we just don’t know about. It’s mostly speculation, no concrete doctrine.
8:43 PM

B
I heard from some people that mormons believe he was once a man named Elohim. Is that true?
8:44 PM

K
That’s what I said above ^^^
8:44 PM

B
It was kind of garbled on my screen for some reason.
8:45 PM
What leaders said he was once a man?
Is their some source material you can reference that I could look up and read for myself?

K
Joseph Smith and Lorenzo Snow were two. I’ll give you some articles.
8:48 PM

B
That would be helpful. I don’t want to misrepresent your beliefs when I encounter others in apologetics or polemics.
8:48 PM

K
That is very understandable!
8:49 PM
Here are some links:
https://www.lds.org/ensign/1971/04/the-king-follett-sermon?lang=eng
http://www.josephsmithpapers.org/site/accounts-of-the-king-follett-sermon
https://www.lds.org/ensign/1982/02/i-have-a-question?lang=eng (Second half of the page)
8:50 PM

B
Thank you. If he was at one point in time a man, then where did that man come from?
8:50 PM

K
Here is another one: https://www.lds.org/topics/becoming-like-god?lang=eng. That is an excellent question, that we don’t really comprehend 🙂 The assumption would be that it follows a similar pattern, so he would have a heavenly father as well. There is so much we don’t understand though.
8:53 PM

B
So, that begs the question, where did they come from and so on?
8:56 PM
Is Tyler still there?
8:58 PM

K
Exactly, and that is a question I have. Imagining eternity is a concept, we don’t fully understand as mortals. God hasn’t revealed much about it.
8:58 PM
Tyler stepped out of the room, but will be back shortly.

B
Kyle, I think He did reveal it to us. He is the uncaused causation, or original originator. Logically there has to be an original uncreated creator of all things. The Bible is pretty clear that God is immutable and eternal. Eternity is also understood as an infinite instance or ageless age.
9:00 PM
Kyle?
9:01 PM

T
Hi Bob! I’m back.
9:01 PM

B
Where did Kyle go?
9:02 PM
Hello?
9:03 PM

T
He had to go. He was just covering for me while I was gone. We just help out at Mormon.org in time shifts and he just finished and had to leave.
9:05 PM

Now chatting with Tyler & Alec
B
So could you answer my question about where did god’s parents come from and where did their parents come from?
9:06 PM

T
There is no official church doctrine on that subject. There is mostly speculation and personal opinion on this subject.
9:08 PM
On the last thing that you wrote. I think that’s an interesting thought. Do you have any other concerns.
9:10 PM

B
It seems to me that there would be a being that was the uncaused causation of all things. An eternal God who has always been and never not existed.
9:10 PM
Yes
I have another question I was pondering.
God the Father in the first vision was said to have flesh and bone.
is that true?
also why can’t I copy and paste something from earlier in the conversation into the input field?

T
Yes we believe that God has a body of flesh and blood. And I don’t know why you can’t copy and paste.
9:12 PM

B
Ok thanks.
9:14 PM
Have a good night.”

I wouldn’t want to be accused of making straw man arguments, or any other logically fallacious arguments.  I hope you found this interesting, and informative.

What is the difference between the Mormon gospel and the gospel of the true Jesus?

glennbeck

According to the documentation on the Mormons own website; “https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bd/gospels”

“…The word gospel means “good news.” The good news is that Jesus Christ has made a perfect atonement for mankind that will redeem all mankind from the grave and reward each individual according to his or her works. This atonement was begun by His appointment in the premortal world but was worked out by Jesus during His mortal sojourn. Therefore, the records of His mortal life and the events pertaining to His ministry are called the Gospels; the four that are contained in our Bible are presented under the names of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John…”

They only had one thing right, and that was the meaning of the word, “gospel.”  Too bad they got everything else wrong.  The Greek word, “εὐαγγέλιον” transliterated is evangelion.  It is where we get our English word, “evangelist” in English we use the word, “gospel” which was an English rendering of a Latin expression meaning, “God’s spell” or “God’s story.”  εὐαγγέλιον means, “good news.”  So what is the good news of Jesus Christ?  Well according to the Mormons it is that everyone lives on after death while some go to one of the three forms of Mormon afterlife determined by their own works.  So basically you go where your works have earned you.  So if you were an uber goody-two-shoes Mormon and followed all the rules you might become an exalted man and one day even a god.  You would get to go to the celestial kingdom until you became a god and had your own solar-system to rule.  If you only were a marginal Mormon you get to go to the terrestial kingdom with all the slackers who were basically good.  Of course if you weren’t a Mormon at all you would have to go to the telestial kingdom and work your way up.

I’m sorry but none of that sounds like very good news to me.  I don’t think that anyone who has ever read the Bible and knows what sin is and what righteousness is would think that is good news.  It looks like insanely BAD news to me.  They are saying that you have to earn your way by works.  Not a lifetime of good works could void even one of my sins.  If you are a thief and you go before the judge and tell him, “Your honor, listen I know I shouldn’t have stolen that ladies purse.  I know it is against the law, but since then I have worked hard and given to charity, and I even washed your car on the way in.”  The judge if he is a just and good judge will say, “None of those things change the fact that you are guilty of the crime of theft.  The fact that you would come in here a guilty thief and try to bribe me with your charity work and washing my car is offensive to me.  You are guilty and here is your sentence.”

If a human judge would be offended how much more would a perfectly and infinitely holy and righteous God be offended?  There is no way to work your way in to Heaven according to the Bible.  Anyone that has honestly read it would tell you that, but the Bible isn’t good enough for the Mormons… oh no!  They have to add the Book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price, and the Doctrine and Covenants.  You see if you are going to try to deceive the world you really have to convolute the truth and by muddying the waters they can do that.

So what is the difference between real Christianity and Mormonism’s gospel?  What is the difference between their Jesus and ours?  Well it is quite simple you see Jesus is God.  Not a god, but the God.  Jesus paid the penalty for the sins of all who He would save.  They couldn’t pay their penalty.  Just one deceitful or lustful thought is enough to warrant an eternity in Hell experiencing the wrath of God being poured out on you for ever.  God would be just and right to do so as He is the perfection of goodness, justice, and righteousness.  A person who doesn’t see how insidious and sinful their sin is in contrast to the holiness of God will never understand their inability.  Of course they think they can earn it because they have brought God down to being at one time a man who lived on a planet orbiting a star named Kolob and who was a sinner and they have elevated man to a being that could earn of his own works godhood!  What complete and utter nonsense and heresy!  Jesus saves us by His grace (unmerited favor) He paid our penalty and imputed His righteousness to those He would save.  They are seen as perfectly righteous and holy upon judgment because they are in Christ Jesus through God granted faith.

So our deceived Mormon friends and family are destined for Hell.  What can we do about it?  How can we help them?  Over many years I have tried several different methods of reaching them.  It seems impossible at times, but we know in regards to salvation anything is possible with God.  I would recommend praying for them.  I would also recommend being their friends while gently sharing the differences you have.  I would also recommend that you get offended when they say they are Christians.  Let them see the joy you have in Christ.  Let them see your liberty to love and your light heart.  Let them see that you are at peace with God and assured of your salvation.  They are burdened with upholding so many rules and rituals that they are always about to crack.  They never can know if they have done enough.  Always tell them the truth about Jesus.  Don’t get into a shouting match with them.  Don’t go into a discussion without first arming yourself with knowledge of the word.  If they throw the, “You’re anti-Mormon” card just tell them you are not and ask them about the, “First Vision.”  It is the one where Joseph Smith supposedly sees God the Father and Jesus both in bodily form and they tell him that all of the churches are false and their teachings are abominations and to join none of them.

jm_400_CH1.pd-P4.tiff

Then explain how offensive that is to you.  Explain that they are just as much anti-Christian as they claim we are anti-mormon.

The next time a Mormon tells you that you are anti-mormon

Joseph_Smith_Hat_South_park

The next time a Mormon tells you that you are anti-mormon you tell them that you are not and that they are anti-Christian.  Then point them to the account of, “The First Vision” and Doctrine and Covenants 130.  Then they will see just how anti-everyone else they are.  Here is what the First Vision says about us;

17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!

18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.

19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”

20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time.

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/pgp/js-h/1?lang=eng

So according to the, “First Vision” we are all wrong and our beliefs are abominable.  Oh and Joseph Smith says there that the Father and Jesus appeared both bodily.  This is also backed up by D&C 130 which I will now quote;

“ 21 And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated.

22 The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us.” https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/130?lang=eng

So you can see here how they claim that the Father also has a body of flesh and blood even though the Bible teaches that the Father is Spirit.  We worship a different God then they do.  Don’t let Mormons get away with calling you anti-mormon when you disagree with them.  If they do, show them how they were anti-Christian first.  We have 2000 years of orthodoxy, tons of artifacts, over 4500 pieces of textual evidence supporting the continuity of the Bible, and geographic sites all over the middle east that support what the Bible says.  They have the wild imaginings of a fallen sinner hungry for power, wealth, and sexual immorality.

 

The evils of unorthodox ecumenism.

ec·u·me·nism  (ky-m-nzm, -ky-)

1. A movement promoting unity among Christian churches or denominations.

2. A movement promoting worldwide unity among religions through greater cooperation and improved understanding.

 

There is a proper ecumenism within the orthodox denominations and then there is the ecumenical movement which is not good.  It is one of unifying the body of Christ with false churches.  For instance Baptists, Presbyterians, and Methodists might get together to have a worship service including singing, praying, and communion.  They could do this because they worship the same God and agree who God is by affirming all of the same Primary Articles of Faith.  What it can’t be is orthodox denominations doing this with false churches that are apostate, or heretical and outside of orthodoxy.  For instance if we had Methodists, Baptists, Roman Catholics, and Mormons getting together to have a worship service including singing, praying, and communion.  This can not be due to the fact that the Roman Catholic Church and the LDS worship a different God than that of the Bible.  The RCC worships a god that does not save you by grace alone.  You must belong to the RCC, practice it’s sacraments, be baptized into it, and further they believe that Mary did not die but was ascended to heaven and is your co-redemtrix who brings your prayers to the feat of Christ and without her your prayers can not be heard and you can not be saved.  They also believe in an infusement of righteousness that you must maintain.  You get an initial washing and then must keep yourself saved.  This is not the same gospel nor the same God of the Bible.  The LDS believe in a god that is not the one and only god and that is not eternal.  Their god can not save you either.

 

Ecumenism is an important.  We must know what a true Church is and how we should interact with them and how we should interact with false churches.

 

Here is a good sermon from A.W. Tozer.  Even though he preached this years and years ago it is still relevant and informative.

http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=298

 

 

 

www.GotQuestions.org
Question: “Is ecumenism biblical? Should a Christian be involved in the ecumenical movement?” Answer: Walter A. Elwell, in The Concise Evangelical Dictionary of Theology, defines ecumenism as “The organized attempt to bring about the cooperation and unity among Christians.” On an international level, the World Council of Churches represents ecumenism when it states its purpose this way (as taken from its website: http://www.wcc-coe.org): “The World Council of Churches is a fellowship of churches which confess the Lord Jesus Christ as God and Savior according to the scriptures, and therefore seek to fulfill together their common calling to the glory of the one God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. It is a community of churches on the way to visible unity in one faith and one eucharistic fellowship, expressed in worship and in common life in Christ. It seeks to advance towards this unity, as Jesus prayed for his followers, ‘so that the world may believe’ (John 17:21).” On a national level, a document called Evangelicals and Catholics Together: The Christian Mission in the Third Millennium, published in 1994 and endorsed by some rather prominent representatives of Evangelical Christianity and Roman Catholicism, is another example of ecumenism. The important question is this: Are ecumenical ventures right and biblical? Should we be involved with other “Christians” in joint ventures, either locally, nationally or internationally? The answer to this question is not black and white. As is almost always the case, one must weigh out the answer in each situation specifically. However, there are a couple of biblical guidelines which will help us make God-honoring decisions regarding ecumenism. First of all, Are those we are joining with truly Christians in the biblical sense of the word? Many people and organizations in America and the world “name the Name of Jesus Christ” and even state He is Lord and Savior and yet clearly reject what the Bible says about Him. Obvious examples of this are Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses. They will say they are followers of Jesus Christ and are Christian and yet deny with vehemence what the Bible declares concerning Christ’s nature and work. A not-so-obvious example comes in the form of liberal Christianity. Liberal Christianity is found in almost every denomination in the United States and, although it may seem very Christian, usually liberal Christians reject several essential biblical truths such as the inspiration and authority of the Bible (2 Timothy 3:16), Jesus as the only Savior of the entire world (John 14:6, 1 Timothy 2:5), and salvation as God’s free gift to those who believe apart from good works (Romans 3:24, 28; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8-9). As seen with the publication of Evangelicals and Catholics Together, there is a major emphasis in our day on ecumenical unity among Evangelicals and Roman Catholics. Those who promote such unity state that both are Christian and both are viable, God-honoring systems of faith. But clearly the substantial differences between the two groups render ECT a ridiculous document. Biblical Christianity and Roman Catholicism are two different religions that practice and believe different things about how one is saved, the authority of the Bible, the priesthood of believers, the nature of man, the work of Christ on the cross, etc. The list of irreconcilable differences between what the Bible says and what the Roman Catholic Church says makes any joint mission between the two absolutely impossible. Those who deny this are not being true to what they say they believe, no matter which side they are on. Any Catholic who is serious about his faith will deny what a serious evangelical Christian believes and vice-versa. The difficulty with ecumenism is that often the above listed groups are passionately like-minded with biblical Christians regarding a given issue. Biblical Christians are usually marked by a strong pro-life belief, a strong traditional view of the family, a strong emphasis on compassion for the homeless and sick, and a strong desire to see justice in the world. The above groups are often marked by the same desires. Thus, the temptation to “pool resources” in pursuit of a common cause is sometimes great. This leads to the next guideline. Second, what is the ultimate goal of this ecumenical venture? The Scriptures give clear guidance as to how Bible-believing Christians are to live their lives. Colossians 3:17 states our purpose this way, “Whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks through Him to God the Father.” Regarding our interactions with the lost, unbelieving world, Jesus states this in Matthew 5:16, “Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.” Some familiar verses are Matthew 28:18-20, also known as the Great Commission, “And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, ‘All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.’” In summary, all that we do is to bring glory and honor to God. Regarding the lost of this world, Christians bring glory to God when God uses the believer to further His kingdom through evangelism and discipleship. This is to be the motivation of the Bible-believing Christian’s interaction with the world. Regarding ecumenical ventures, we need to ask ourselves whether or not these goals are being pursued. Often, in our day, the political and/or social desires of the participants are the driving motivators behind an ecumenical venture. A prime example of this is the current drive to pass a constitutional amendment declaring that the only marriage that will be recognized in the United States is the traditional, man/woman union. If our churches ecumenically join together in pursuit of this goal (passing out fliers, hosting a rally, etc), how are we striving for the above stated biblical purposes? Are we not simply striving for political and social achievement? How will the practicing, unbelieving homosexual view our Savior and Lord if all he sees in us is political activism and no compassion and no outreach? The ultimate goal of our actions should be the salvation of lost sinners, which we once were (Ephesians 2:1-3). The Bible tells us that the angels of heaven rejoice over one sinner who repents (Luke 15:10). There is no passage that declares that the angels rejoice when a law is passed. This applies to homosexuality, abortion, drug-abuse, etc. God is glorified when we demonstrate Christlikeness to the lost. As we contemplate ecumenical ventures within our society, we need to make sure the venture is one in which God’s kingdom is expanded through pursuing the lost with the gospel, be they practicing immorality, abortion-rights activists, homeless, drug-abusers, criminals, etc. In conclusion, should we be involved in ecumenical cooperation with other Christians and churches? If the above conditions are met in a God-honoring way, we may freely and joyfully join with other believers in pursuit of God’s kingdom. The ultimate goal is God’s glory and the evangelism and discipleship of the lost. The ecumenical venture must be structured in this way. Thus, those we join with must believe the biblical definition of the gospel and they must also be about seeking the same goal of God’s glory and the salvation of the lost.

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