Category: mormonism

mormonism · Theology · Trinity

The god of mormonism Is Not The God Of The Christianity.

Bob SnyderLeave a comment
This is a mormon image of their false prophet's lie about his first vision from god, where he claims to have seen both Jesus, and God the Father at the same time, with them both appearing in flesh, and bone. It contradicts the Bible. According to John 4:24 God the Father is spirit, and must be worshiped in spirit, and truth.

God’s Nature in Mormonism vs. Biblical Christianity

The god of mormonism/LDS is not the God of Christianity, and the Bible. They are not the same. No man can claim that mormons/LDS are Christians after reading this short comparison. If he does, he is a deceiver.

Comparison: LDS vs. Historic Christian Doctrine of God

One of the most striking theological differences between Latter-day Saint (Mormon) belief and historic Christian orthodoxy is their understanding of God’s eternity and nature. The following chart outlines the contrasts clearly.

DoctrineHistoric Christian / Biblical ViewLDS (Mormon) View
1. God’s Nature (Essence)God is spirit, infinite, eternal, uncreated, and unchangeable in being, wisdom, power, holiness, justice, goodness, and truth (John 4:24; Malachi 3:6; James 1:17).God the Father is an exalted, glorified man with a physical body of flesh and bone (D&C 130:22). He is one of a species of “gods” who achieved exaltation.
2. Eternity / BeginningGod is eternal and self-existent — He never came into being. He is aseity itself: the uncaused cause (Psalm 90:2; Isaiah 43:10).God the Father had a beginning as a man; He lived on another world, progressed, and was exalted to godhood. “As man now is, God once was.” (Lorenzo Snow)
3. CreationGod created all things out of nothing (creatio ex nihilo) by His word (Genesis 1:1; John 1:3; Colossians 1:16).God organized pre-existing matter; the universe and intelligences are co-eternal with God (D&C 93:29; Abraham 3:18–19).
4. The Trinity / GodheadOne divine being in three coequal, coeternal persons — Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (Matthew 28:19; John 1:1).Three separate beings — the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost — “one in purpose,” but not in substance or essence.
5. Immutability (Unchangeableness)God is eternally the same in nature and perfections (Malachi 3:6; Hebrews 13:8).God progressed to His current state of perfection and glory; some LDS sources imply He may still progress in knowledge or glory.
6. Humanity’s DestinyHumans are creatures made in God’s image but not of His essence; they remain created beings (Isaiah 43:10; Romans 11:36).Humans are of the same species as God—“intelligences” co-eternal with Him—and can become gods themselves (D&C 132:20).
7. Salvation / ExaltationSalvation = eternal life in God’s presence by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8–9). God remains God alone (Isaiah 44:6–8).Salvation (in its fullest sense) = exaltation — becoming gods like the Father, ruling over spirit offspring eternally (Moses 1:39; D&C 132).

The Core Difference: “Uncreated Creator” vs. “A Created, Exalted Man”

Historic Christianity

  • God is wholly other—not part of creation, not composed of matter, and not subject to time.
  • There is only one God, uncreated and infinite, the source of all being.
  • Humans can be glorified and made holy but never become divine by nature.

Latter-day Saint Theology

  • God the Father was once a man and progressed to godhood.
  • Matter and “intelligences” are eternal; God did not create existence itself but organized it.
  • Humanity shares the same kind of being as God and can ascend to the same state of exaltation.

Biblical Conflict Points (from a Historic Christian View)

LDS ClaimBiblical Response
“God was once a man.”“Before the mountains were brought forth… from everlasting to everlasting, You are God.” — Psalm 90:2
“There are many gods.”“I am the LORD, and there is no other; besides Me there is no God.” — Isaiah 45:5
“Man can become a god.”The serpent’s temptation: “You shall be as God” (Genesis 3:5). Believers become like Christ in holiness, not gods in essence (2 Peter 1:4).
“God has a body of flesh and bones.”“God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.” — John 4:24

Modern LDS Clarifications

In recent years, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has:

  • Affirmed that God has a physical body and that humans can become exalted.
  • Avoided speculation about God’s life before His godhood.
  • Emphasized worship of the Father alone, not a chain of gods.

“Little has been revealed about the first stages of God’s life or how He became God. Latter-day Saints believe that all of God’s children can progress toward a divine destiny.”
— Gospel Topics Essay: “Becoming Like God,” ChurchofJesusChrist.org

Summary

AspectChristian OrthodoxyLDS Doctrine
God’s originEternal, without beginningOnce a man, became God
OntologyUncreated Creator, unique in beingOne among many divine beings
CreationOut of nothing (ex nihilo)From eternal matter
Human destinyRedeemed creaturesPotential gods
ContinuityInfinite distinction between God and manInfinite continuity between God and man

Final Thought

Historic Christianity sees God as the uncreated Creator, wholly distinct from His creation, while Latter-day Saint theology envisions God as an exalted man, sharing the same kind of existence as His children.

The difference ultimately shapes how each faith understands worship, salvation, and the very meaning of divinity.

God says in His Word,

“21 Jesus *said to her, “Woman, believe Me, an hour is coming when neither in this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. 22 You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23 But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers. 24 God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

25 The woman *said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming (He who is called Christ); when He comes, He will declare all things to us.”

26 Jesus *said to her, “I who speak to you am He.”” John 4:21-26 (LSB)

If you read this, and still claim that mormons are Christians, I’d like you to reconsider. They are by definition, not Christians. They are in a works righteousness cult that puts the onerous obligation on the member to warrant enough favor with their god through works to become an exalted man themselves one day, and ultimately to become a god of their own solar system. Anyone who knows anything about God, knows that mormonism is a lie. The claims the Bible makes about God, and the claims that mormonism makes, are mutually exclusive truth claims. One can be right, both can be wrong, but both can’t be right. If you are mormon, stop calling yourself Christian! You most certainly are not! Repent of your sins, and trust solely in the justifying work of the 2nd Person of the Triune God, Jesus. Stop believing the lies of a second rate, ignorant, con-man, who created a cult for power, profit, and perversion. He is nothing like Jesus!

Here Is Proof That Joseph Smith Was A Liar, And False Prophet.
Cults · false teachers · mormonism

Here Is Proof That Joseph Smith Was A Liar, And False Prophet.

Bob SnyderLeave a comment

Many people are not aware that Joseph Smith, the founder of the cult known as, “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints” a.k.a. Mormons, or L.D.S. made his own, “translation” of the Bible. I put translation in quotes, because anyone who knows anything about the collections of ancient Biblical texts, knows that the Joseph Smith Translation is not an actual translation of the those texts. Joseph Smith simply added things to the Bible to support his lies, and consequent false doctrines, and he took things out that contradicted his lies, and false doctrines. You don’t have to take my word for it. I will provide proof from his false translation, and compare what he wrote to the ancient texts.

My favorite place to start when looking at a Bible translation is John, chapter 1. This is one of the most significant sections of scripture that support the deity of Christ, and His aseity as the eternal Son, and Word of God. Here is what Joseph Smith claims is a proper translation of the this section of scripture.

“In the beginning was the gospel preached through the Son. And the gospel was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was of God.” (John 1:1 [JST])

Here is the same verse from the Legacy Standard Bible. (LSB)

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” (John 1:1 LSB)

In case you didn’t know, the New Testament was written in Koine Greek. We have over 5000 pieces of textual evidence from the Bible, as well as quotes contained in the writings of the early Church. Here is the same verse in the Koine Greek.

“ΕΝ ΑΡΧΗ ἦν ὁ λόγος, καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν, καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος.” (NA 27)

Here is a transliteration of the Greek text, and a translation of it immediately following.

Ēn archē ēn hō logos, kai hō logos ēn pros ton theon, kai theos ēn hō logos.

“ēn” is a preposition. It can mean, in, with, through, on, under, during, while, at. “hō” is a definite article. “Logos” means word. “kai” is a conjunction, and can mean, but, and, also, even. “pros” is primarily a preposition that can mean to, toward, for, among. “ton” is another form of the definite article. “theon” is a form of theos, which means god. You put it all together, and it would look like this before cleaning up the word order for English.

In beginning was the word and the word was with god and god was the word.

In Koine Greek everything pivots off of the definite article. There are 24 ways of saying, “the” in Greek. It can be nominative, genitive, dative, accusative, singular, plural, masculine, neutered, and feminine. It has a different spelling/form in each one of these cases. The subject, and object in a sentence don’t obey our English word order because the definite article tells you which ones are the subject, and object by the word endings.

.

If Joseph Smith knew anything about the Biblical languages, he’d have known that his, “translation” was wrong. Don’t get me wrong. He knew he was lying, and making it up. He was a con-man, a liar, and a crook.

The word, “gospel” in Greek is εὐαγγέλιον or euangelion. When there is a doubling of gamma the first one becomes a nu. This word means good message, or good news. It is a compound word. Joseph Smith inserts it in the first verse to get away from the obvious truth that the Word of God is the Creator of all things. Mormonism insists that Jesus preexisted instead of recognizing Him as the incarnation of the eternal Son, the 2nd Person of the Triune God. In mormonism they deny the trinity, and that Jesus is God. They teach that Jesus was the brother of Satan, and that he is the product of intercourse between the mother god, and the father god. They mistakenly call the father Elohim, which is a transliteration of the Hebrew word for god, power, judge. Elohim is a plural form of El. When the Bible is talking about The One true God, this plural form is used with a singular verb. This is one of the ways, along with context, that we can know what is being said. If Smith knew that, and truly wanted to do a translation, he never would have used evangelion, or Elohim the way that he did. You can also see that the word, “son” is not in the original text either. “υἱός” huios is son. It isn’t in the text people.

So to sum up, Joseph Smith lied about his translation of the Bible. I just proved that to you. Since he lied about that, what makes you think he wouldn’t have lied about everything else he said, and wrote? People didn’t have access to the information back then that we do now. Even so, they had educated Pastors, who warned them, and they chose to follow this liar. We have all this access to information now. You can read the texts for yourself if you care to learn the languages. I encourage you to repent of your cult membership, repent of your sins, and trust solely in the justifying work of Jesus, the one true, and living God.

Apologetics · Deity of Christ · God · Islam Muslims quran · Jehovah's witnesses · mormonism · Theology · Trinity · Uncategorized

The Deity of Christ from the Old Testament for our Jehovah’s Witness, Mormon, and Muslim friends, part 2.

Bob SnyderLeave a comment

Today we are going to pick up where we left off from the last article you can read it here.  Earlier we examined Genesis 15:1-2 to see that the Word of the Lord is God.  We also connected these verses with John 1:1-18 to see that the Word is Jesus.  Today we are going to look at Genesis 15:3-7 which will reinforce our previous assertion that the Word of the Lord is God, Jesus is the Word, and Jesus is God.  [The text in the brackets is mine.]  The blue text indicates who is doing the action and the red is what is being done.

Genesis 15:3-7 (NASB) 3 And Abram said, “Since You have given no offspring to me, one born in my house is my heir.” 4 Then behold, the word of the Lord came to him, saying,

[If you notice, the person doing the talking is identified as “the word of the Lord.”  You can tell he is a person because he is, “saying.”  The word of the Lord is speaking to Abram.]

“This man will not be your heir; but one who will come forth from your own body, he shall be your heir.” 5 And He took him outside and said,

[Notice the Word is referred to as, “He.”  What did He do?  He, “took him outside and said…”  How can anyone look at these verses and not come to the conclusion that the Word of the Lord is God, and how can they, in light of John 1:1-18 not see that Jesus is the Word and He is God?]

“Now look toward the heavens, and count the stars, if you are able to count them.” And He said to him, “So shall your descendants be.” 6  Then he believed in the Lord; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness. 7 And He said to him, “I am the Lord who brought you out of Ur of the Chaldeans, to give you this land to possess it.”

If this isn’t enough, I’ll post some more later on.  Study the word, to know the Word, and His intent.  Knowing Him is knowing God.  To know God, and be known by Him, to be His adopted child and heir, is to be saved by this Triune God’s grace according to His sovereign will, regenerating and indwelling by His Spirit, and the justifying work on the cross of His Son.

Apologetics · Deity of Christ · God · Islam Muslims quran · Jehovah's witnesses · mormonism · Theology · Trinity · Uncategorized

The Deity of Christ from the Old Testament for our Jehovah’s Witness, Mormon, and Muslim friends.

Bob Snyder1 Comment

lamb

I don’t know how many times I’ve heard the same accusation from Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons (LDS), and Muslims.  They claim that Jesus is not God, but a god, good man, prophet, teacher, and so on.  I think it is great that we can always go to the word of God to let it make the defense.  Charles Spurgeon was quoted as saying, “The Word of God is like a lion. You don’t have to defend a lion. All you have to do is let the lion loose, and the lion will defend itself.”  I agree with him.

With that being said let’s take a look at Genesis 15:1-2, and John 1:1-18.

In Genesis 15:1-2 we see that the word of the LORD came to Abram in a vision. Now, you don’t hear a vision. You see it. Some people would insist that this is just Abram hearing God speak to him, but this is actually the preincarnate Christ appearing to Abram in a vision, and speaking to him. Abram said, “…O LORD God…” or אֲדֹנָי ’ăḏônây; an emphatic form of âḏôn; or (shortened) אָדֹן ’adon; from an unused root (meaning to rule); sovereign, i.e. controller (human or divine): — lord, master, owner. Compare also names beginning with “Adoni-”.; the Lord (used as a proper name of God only): — (my) Lord. In this section of God’s word ăḏônây is used in conjunction with יְהוָֹה yhwh; (the) self-being aseity or Eternal; name of God: — the Lord. So essentially he is saying, Adonai YHWH or Sovereign eternal self-being, was being, is being, always is, one and only true God.  It is obvious that Abram believed the word of the LORD to be the one true, eternal, and self-being God.

We can look at John 1:1-18 and see who John said the Word of God is. Again, it is obvious that Jesus is the Word.

John 1:1-18 (NASB) 1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2  He was in the beginning with God. 3  All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4  In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. 5  The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
The Witness John
6 There came a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7  He came  as a witness, to testify about the Light, so that all might believe through him. 8   He was not the Light, but he came to testify about the Light.
9 There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13  who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
The Word Made Flesh
14 And the Word became flesh, and  dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth. 15 John *testified about Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.’” 16 For of His fullness we have all received, and grace upon grace. 17 For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ. 18  No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

Jesus is not a god like the Mormons say.  He was not Michael the angel transfigured like the Jehovah’s Witnesses would tell you.  He was not just a prophet like Muslims claim.  If there is any doubt now that Jesus is the Word, and the Word is God, it is not due to lack of evidence.  It is due to disbelief.  May God grant you true and saving faith in the Savior, Jesus Christ our Lord and God.

NO OTHER GODS!!! REPENT OF YOUR HERESY!!!
God · heresy · mormonism · Repentance · Theology · Uncategorized

NO OTHER GODS!!! REPENT OF YOUR HERESY!!!

Bob SnyderLeave a comment
trinity-1

There Are No Other True Gods

There are no other true gods anywhere. There are none in other solar systems. There are none on any other planets. There is no true God except for the God of the Bible, and He is triune.

If you deny these truths, you are not Christian, but an idolator! You have made up a god to believe in, and you are in a very, very, very bad sin. Believing in the wrong god will not save you. It will damn you to Hell!

Please repent of your Mormon beliefs! I love my LDS friends, and desperately don’t want you to go to Hell. Some of you, who I maintain ties with, are exceedingly nice people. I’d love for you to become true brothers in Christ.

What Mormonism Teaches

Mormonism teaches that there are potentially an infinite number of gods, and currently there are countless ones ruling countless solar systems/planets. Mormonism teaches that the only eternal things are matter and intellect. It claims that its people worship only the god of this world/solar system.

The Bible says the god of this world is Satan. The Bible is clear that there is only one true God. He created everything. That includes all solar systems and worlds. Logic dictates that there would have to be one original originator—uncaused causation. If there were many gods, there would be no true god among them. God cannot share His power with other gods, nor can He be known as many gods. He is one God in trinity.

To Jehovah’s Witnesses and Assemblies of Yahweh

For the Jehovah’s Witnesses, and Assemblies of Yahweh cult members, repent of your Aryanism! You and the Mormons share this in common. You believe that Christ is not the incarnate second person of the Trinity, the Son, but rather a created being, and brother to Satan.

You believe that both are the true children of a father god, and mother god, who copulated to produce them as spirit children. They are only two of millions upon millions. You believe in a lie. You must repent!

Read the Old Testament, keeping an eye out for the Christophanies. If you do that, you will see Christ from the beginning. Read John 1:1-14. How can you study the Bible and believe such lies about Christ our God, Saviour, Lord/Master κῦρος, Prophet, Priest, Prince, and King?

The Word of the Lord

“Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts:
‘I am the first and I am the last,
And there is no God besides Me.
‘Who is like Me? Let him proclaim and declare it;
Yes, let him recount it to Me in order,
From the time that I established the ancient nation.
And let them declare to them the things that are coming
And the events that are going to take place.
‘Do not tremble and do not be afraid;
Have I not long since announced it to you and declared it?
And you are My witnesses.
Is there any God besides Me,
Or is there any other Rock?
I know of none.'”

Joseph Smith’s “First Vision”

The Mormons believe in Joseph Smith’s lie called, “The First Vision.” In this supposed revelation from god, he claims that god the father and Jesus both appeared to him at the same time, and that they both appeared in flesh and bone.

The Bible says otherwise:

“21 Jesus *said to her, ‘Woman, believe Me, an hour is coming when neither in this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father.
22 You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews.
23 But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.
24 God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.’
25 The woman *said to Him, ‘I know that Messiah is coming (He who is called Christ); when He comes, He will declare all things to us.’
26 Jesus *said to her, ‘I who speak to you am He.’”
— John 4:21-26 (LSB)

On the LDS site, they hide this now problematic information, and only show people the 1838 account of it, but at last count there were over 27 different accounts of the first vision. Joseph Smith wasn’t even consistent within himself.

Nonetheless, if you look at their Doctrines and Covenants, the same information is laid out, and has not been scrubbed yet.

Doctrine and Covenants 130:22 (Recorded in 1843)

“The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us.”

Why Mormonism Is Not Christian

This are just a few of the reasons Mormonism is a cult, and not Christian. There are so many glaring, and obvious, deceptions, it is amazing to me that people call them Christian.

The only way this can happen is that people are so egregiously biblically ignorant, and have absolutely no relationship with God as their Savior, Father, & King, they easily believe lies, and are themselves deceived.

God · mormonism · Uncategorized

Have you ever chatted with a mormon on their website?

Bob SnyderLeave a comment

mormonchat

Have you ever chatted with a mormon on their website?  I just did.  I had two simple questions.  Where did God come from, and did He have a body of flesh and bone?  As a Christian, I know that God has no beginning or end.  I know that He is the uncaused causation of all things.  I know that He has never not been and will always be.  I also know that God the Father is spirit and must be worshipped in spirit.  He has no body.

The chat started out with two mormons in the chat.  One was named Kyle the other was Tyler.  As I began asking my questions Kyle became the main responder.  Kyle was giving very evasive non-answers to my questions.  It was as if the mormon church had no answers for my questions officially.  When I explained the eternality of God, Kyle immediately left the chat and a new person named Alec joined.  Then Tyler became the main responder to my questions.  He paraphrased his partner’s previous noncommittal answers.  When I was satisfied that I had received as much of an answer as I was going to get, I ended the conversation.

I wanted them to answer the questions because I didn’t want to misrepresent their beliefs.  After talking with them, it is easy to see how people would misrepresent them.  Their indefinite official stance on what their church doesn’t know is quite frustrating.  The following is a transcript of the conversation;

“Thank you for your interest in chatting with a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
What would you like to talk about?

B
Did God always exist as God, or did He at some point in time not exist as He does now?
8:29 PM

Now chatting with Tyler & Kyle
T
Hi Bob!
8:31 PM

B
Hello.
8:31 PM

T
How are you tonight Bob?
8:31 PM

B
Fine, how are you?
8:31 PM

T
I’m doing well. Thanks.
8:32 PM
What brought you onto Mormon.org tonight?

B
Did God always exist as God, or did He at some point in time not exist as He does now?
8:34 PM
you guys still there?
8:40 PM

K
That is a great question! To be honest, we don’t know too much about the origin of God. Some leaders of the Church have taught that God progressed from a man to Godhood.
8:41 PM
Sorry about the delay.
We are here.

B
What was He before He was God?
8:42 PM

T
Like what Kyle said earlier, that’s one topic that we just don’t know about. It’s mostly speculation, no concrete doctrine.
8:43 PM

B
I heard from some people that mormons believe he was once a man named Elohim. Is that true?
8:44 PM

K
That’s what I said above ^^^
8:44 PM

B
It was kind of garbled on my screen for some reason.
8:45 PM
What leaders said he was once a man?
Is their some source material you can reference that I could look up and read for myself?

K
Joseph Smith and Lorenzo Snow were two. I’ll give you some articles.
8:48 PM

B
That would be helpful. I don’t want to misrepresent your beliefs when I encounter others in apologetics or polemics.
8:48 PM

K
That is very understandable!
8:49 PM
Here are some links:
https://www.lds.org/ensign/1971/04/the-king-follett-sermon?lang=eng
http://www.josephsmithpapers.org/site/accounts-of-the-king-follett-sermon
https://www.lds.org/ensign/1982/02/i-have-a-question?lang=eng (Second half of the page)
8:50 PM

B
Thank you. If he was at one point in time a man, then where did that man come from?
8:50 PM

K
Here is another one: https://www.lds.org/topics/becoming-like-god?lang=eng. That is an excellent question, that we don’t really comprehend 🙂 The assumption would be that it follows a similar pattern, so he would have a heavenly father as well. There is so much we don’t understand though.
8:53 PM

B
So, that begs the question, where did they come from and so on?
8:56 PM
Is Tyler still there?
8:58 PM

K
Exactly, and that is a question I have. Imagining eternity is a concept, we don’t fully understand as mortals. God hasn’t revealed much about it.
8:58 PM
Tyler stepped out of the room, but will be back shortly.

B
Kyle, I think He did reveal it to us. He is the uncaused causation, or original originator. Logically there has to be an original uncreated creator of all things. The Bible is pretty clear that God is immutable and eternal. Eternity is also understood as an infinite instance or ageless age.
9:00 PM
Kyle?
9:01 PM

T
Hi Bob! I’m back.
9:01 PM

B
Where did Kyle go?
9:02 PM
Hello?
9:03 PM

T
He had to go. He was just covering for me while I was gone. We just help out at Mormon.org in time shifts and he just finished and had to leave.
9:05 PM

Now chatting with Tyler & Alec
B
So could you answer my question about where did god’s parents come from and where did their parents come from?
9:06 PM

T
There is no official church doctrine on that subject. There is mostly speculation and personal opinion on this subject.
9:08 PM
On the last thing that you wrote. I think that’s an interesting thought. Do you have any other concerns.
9:10 PM

B
It seems to me that there would be a being that was the uncaused causation of all things. An eternal God who has always been and never not existed.
9:10 PM
Yes
I have another question I was pondering.
God the Father in the first vision was said to have flesh and bone.
is that true?
also why can’t I copy and paste something from earlier in the conversation into the input field?

T
Yes we believe that God has a body of flesh and blood. And I don’t know why you can’t copy and paste.
9:12 PM

B
Ok thanks.
9:14 PM
Have a good night.”

I wouldn’t want to be accused of making straw man arguments, or any other logically fallacious arguments.  I hope you found this interesting, and informative.

Apologetics · mormonism · Theology

The L.D.S. Articles of faith shown in error contrasted with the truth of the Bible.

Bob SnyderLeave a comment

Today we are going to look at the Latter Day Saint’s Articles of Faith, written by their prophet Joseph Smith, to see how it conflicts with orthodox Christianity.  It is important to note how they use the same words we do, but define them very differently.

The Articles of Faithof The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

Chapter 1

1 We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.

2 We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression.

3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.

4 We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.

5 We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.

6 We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.

7 We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.

8 We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.

9 We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.

10 We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.

11 We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.

13 We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

Joseph Smith.

The first one seems alright until you ask them to define their terms, then we see the vast chasm that separates them from the true faith.

1 We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.

Their father was once a man named Elohim (which is amusing because Elohim is the Hebrew word for god)  This man followed the doctrines of the LDS faith so well that he became an exalted man, then the god who rules this solar system.  According to the LDS faith, he has a flesh and bone body and is a caucasian.  When they say he is eternal they only mean that he was part of the eternal energy and intellect.  They only believe that matter and intellect are eternal.  They believe that Elohim was the son of his parents as they were children of their parents and so on approaching infinity.  In that sense, they call him eternal.  They believe that Jesus is actually his son through sexual copulation and that the holy spirit is simple the spirit of the father.

2 We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression.

They deny man’s inherited sin nature in Adam, conflicting with what the Bible says in 1 Corinthians 15 as Adam being our federal head.  Denial of total depravity also helps them justify other abhorrent beliefs.

3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.

They deny limited atonement and affirm that man’s salvation is by his obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel.  It must be noted that they do not mean the moral law of the Bible, and they do not mean the gospel of Christ when they refer to, “ordinances of the gospel.”  They are talking about their own set of laws and ordinances that their prophets have made up and recorded for them to follow.  Thus their salvation is one of works not grace for grace is unmerited favor and by definition can not be of our own being.  This belief is also in direct conflict with the Bible for we know, “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.” Ephesians 2:8-9

4 We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Again this sounds good until you find out what they believe about Jesus, the gospel, faith, repentance, baptism and the laying on of hands.  I’ve already explained that their jesus is a created being who is not God.  Their gospel is a list of works and doctrines that must be obeyed so it is no good news at all.  Read their book, “Doctrines and Covenants” if you want to understand what they call the gospel.  The Christian gospel, εὐαγγέλιον-euangelion, or good message is one of salvation by grace, not adherence to a moral code written by a false prophet.  Their repentance is not the repentance that leads to life, because theirs is the one that leaves them dead.  They have a works righteous repentance where they admit wrongdoing and attempt in their own dead flesh to not do it again.  As we know the repentance that leads to life is actually the repentance of their type of repentance.  For someone to truly be LDS they must be baptised into the cult.  It is a necessity.  In Christianity baptismal regeneration is a heresy.  They believe in apostolic succession.  This is also a false teaching.  We know there are no more Apostles in the same sense as the ones who were with the incarnate Christ and sent by Him to build the Church upon Him as the rock.  We also know that the Holy Spirit indwells all regenerate believers.  

5 We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.

This also sounds good until you understand what they mean.  Their god can call nobody, because he doesn’t exist.  Their god is a fictional character imagined by Joseph Smith.  The only people who can be leaders in their cult are those who have been approved by the men who have already been firmly entrenched into their cult.

6 We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.

Smith uses the phrase, “so forth” without being specific about other offices they affirm.  It is almost as if he was just too lazy and didn’t want to look into it.  Again he is using words that are in the Bible and redefining them.  One who is sent with a message is an apostle according to the Bible in a sense all Christians are apostles.  We are not Apostles in the sense of, “The Apostles.”  A person who declares the reality of what God says as actual truth is a Prophet.  Prophets who declared portions of God’s word that had not occurred yet are not predicting the future like a fortune teller.  If God says something is going to happen it has already happened we just haven’t gotten that far down the timeline yet.  Modern Prophets are just reading the Bible out loud.  We have the complete word of God given to us in the Bible, there is no more to come.  Jesus perfectly fulfilled the role of Prophet, as He is the Word made flesh.

7 We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.

Of course they affirm all sorts of extra-biblical revelation.  It is the only way they can justify believing the lies of Joseph Smith and all of the other false prophets of their faith.

8 We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.

Here is the kicker.  It seems fine, and you might even agree that the Bible does need to be translated correctly, but that is not how they use this.  Whenever you bring up a conflict between what the false doctrines of the LDS are and show them the Bible they default to this article.  “Oh the Bible has been corrupted here and it wasn’t properly translated.”  They, like so many cults and satan in Genesis call people to doubt the word of God.  Satan tempted Eve by telling her God’s word is not true and that she could become like God.  It is interesting that the LDS say the same thing satan said.  Genesis 3:1-7 “Now the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, “Indeed, has God said, ‘You shall not eat from any tree of the garden’?” The woman said to the serpent, “From the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat; but from the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden, God has said, ‘You shall not eat from it or touch it, or you will die.’” The serpent said to the woman, “You surely will not die! “For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise, she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate. Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loin coverings.”

9 We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.

The LDS are continuationists in the extreme sense.  They don’t just believe in continued miracle healings like our charismatic brother, but exceed that of acceptable doctrine by preaching extra-biblical revelations and more revealed truths that supercede and abrogate the word of God that we have.

10 We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.

That’s right, you read it correctly, Joseph Smith wrote there were only 10 tribes.  What happened to the other 2?  They believe that there were 10 lost Hebrew tribes that fled to America in antiquity.  They also believe that ‘Merica! is going to be where the New Jerusalem will be…  Come on? Really?  I know, I know, it baffles the mind, but this is what they believe.  When you are a false prophet you can say just about anything even stuff that is flat out fiction.

11 We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

This is a pretty relativistic statement in practice.  It sounds innocuous enough to be non-threatening, but if they truly believe this why do they send out missionaries?

12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.

Interesting that there is no clause to disobey the government when it is compelling the people to disobey God.  The Bible is pretty clear that we stop obeying the government when it tells us to disobey God.  Like their 11th article it is a product of the time.  During this period in American history mormons were seen as a dangerous cult.  They were forced out of cities and towns as they followed their outlaw leaders who were  horse thieves, and crooks.  They were not well liked or respected due to their insane beliefs and practices.

13 We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

Joseph Smith attempts to tie it all up here and put a pretty spin on things, but let’s see what they really pursued, polygamy, false prophecies that never came true, false prophets whose prophecies they built their faith on, immoral ceremonial practices, oh oh and, “So forth” (I’m kidding, I won’t do to you what Joseph Smith did to you) works righteousness in a graceless man-centered system, they have believed the lie instead of the truth, a false jesus who is a creation and can not save from sin, and a god who is not eternal.

If the LDS are right about who God is, then God and His word are wrong.
Apologetics · mormonism

If the LDS are right about who God is, then God and His word are wrong.

Bob SnyderLeave a comment

If the LDS are right about who God is, then God and His word are wrong.

In the Bible we have doctrines that are expressed by Jesus Himself, The one and only God incarnate, none ever before Him and none after Him anywhere or anytime.  These doctrines are repeated and expounded upon by the Apostles in the Epistles of the New Covenant recorded in the New Testament.  These doctrines are exclusive claims to actual truths.  When someone else confesses a doctrine that asserts something other than what has already been established by the one true, immutable, and infallible God, then our only option is to reject their  assertion as heresy.

Let’s look at some of their doctrines that conflict with Biblical doctrines, and are mutually exclusive in their claims.  Christians claim there is only one true God.  There has never been any other god besides Him. He has always existed in trinity. He has never not existed.  We also claim that if you don’t believe in Him as explained here, as one being in three personages, that you can not be called part of the Church.  Because, you have put your faith in a different god.  Obviously, worshipping a different god makes you not a Christian.

Latter Day Saints (LDS or Mormons) do not have one triune God.  They actually have a number of gods approaching infinity.  They choose to worship just one of the gods Joseph Smith imagined for them.  The god they choose to worship, was once a man named Elohim.  He lived on a planet orbiting a star called Kolab.  So their god is an E.T. extra terrestrial, alien from outer space.  Allegedly he was such a good follower of the mormon doctrines that he was promoted to being an exalted man.  He eventually became the god of this solar system and the Earth that we live on.  So the one god that they worship out of the billions of gods they have, was once a created man.  He was born of his father god and goddess mother.  They now call him Heavenly Father and believe he has a body of flesh and bone.  They believe that he had sex with Mary the virgin and that Jesus the spirit child was then embodied in his biological son with Mary.  Here is a quote from the Brigham Young University site,

As the Prophet Joseph Smith said, “God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret” (TPJS, p. 345). Thus, the Father became the Father at some time before “the beginning” as humans know it, by experiencing a mortality similar to that experienced on earth. There has been speculation among some Latter-day Saints on the implications of this doctrine, but nothing has been revealed to the Church about conditions before the “beginning” as mortals know it. The important points of the doctrine for Latter-day Saints are that Gods and humans are the same species of being, but at different stages of development in a divine continuum, and that the heavenly Father and Mother are the heavenly pattern, model, and example of what mortals can become through obedience to the gospel (see Mother in Heaven). Knowing that they are the literal offspring of Heavenly Parents and that they can become like those parents through the gospel of Jesus Christ is a wellspring of religious motivation. With God as the literal Father and with humans having the capacity to become like him, the basic religious questions “Where did I come from?,” “Why am I here?,” and What is my destiny?” are fundamentally answered.

Keep in mind that our LDS friends co-opt many of our words.  They mean something completely different to them.  When we talk of God the Father or Jesus we are talking about a very different God than they are.  They might believe we are talking about the same god, but they have better and more true information than we do.  The gospel to them is not the same things we think of.  Their gospel is a bunch of laws, rules, do’s and don’ts, from their book Doctrine and Covenants.  Our understanding comes from the Biblical definition.  The word, “gospel” means, “good message or news.”  When we think of the gospel of Jesus, we understand it to mean the penal substitutionary atonement wrought by Christ God Himself for the salvation of His sovereignly elected saints to bring glory to His name. In Christianity the work has been done by Jesus.  He paid for our sins.  By repenting and believing in Him, his work is imputed to us.  It is done, done, done.  We do good works because of our new affections and desires born from a regenerated spirit as born again believers.

with this article on only of few of the many differences, I hope it is obvious that the LDS are not Christian.  They are a polytheistic Arian cult, created by the false prophet Joseph Smith.

Apologetics · mormonism · Theology

Hey, how ‘bout those free King James Version Bibles the Mormons give away? Surely it is just a KJV Bible right?…

Bob SnyderLeave a comment

How many people have picked up a Mormon KJV without knowing where it came from?  How many people just took it for granted that it was the same as the 1611 authorized.  Well, it isn’t.  This is what they have to say about it on their site, 1“As guided by the Spirit, Joseph spent about three years going through the Bible, making thousands of corrections to the text and restoring information that had been lost. This restored information sheds marvelous light on many doctrines that are not clearly presented in the Bible as it exists today. These inspired revisions to the text of the Bible are known as the Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible. Hundreds of passages from the Joseph Smith Translation are now included in the Latter-day Saint edition of the King James Version of the Bible.”

Want to know why they don’t just use the Joseph Smith Bible?  It is because the, “Reorganized Latter Day Saints” or as they are known now the, “Community of Christ” holds the copy right to the Joseph Smith translation.  Of course it behooves them to not use that translation.  Now that many of us have access to the very old Greek and Hebrew texts with some education we can easily tell that Joseph Smith’s version is a per-version.  We can also contact experts on ancient texts as easily as sending them an e-mail and most of them are happy to explain how Joseph Smith’s per-version is completely, ludicrously, and laughably, the worst fraud attempt outside of the New Word Translation from the Jehovah’s Witnesses.

So they keep passing it off as the authorized KJV when it clearly is not and is even on their web page.  Let’s face it, Mormons have a low regard for the Bible in comparison to their other documents anyway.  Their 8th article of faith explains that plainly, 2“We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.”  We can see that they hold the BOM in higher regard than the Bible and we know their theology and doctrines are completely anti-Christ.

So why do many Mormons insist it is the same KJV?  One reason is that they just don’t know any better.  Mormons like Christians have tons of ignorant people wandering about their ranks claiming to be one of them, while never having read or studied what it actually means to be, “one of them.”  Theology and doctrine matter!  We can’t just keep going on in ignorance.  If you are Mormon, study your documents and see if you agree.  If you can’t agree with your theology and doctrines, leave the church.  If you are Christian, study your documents and see if you agree.  If you can’t affirm you theology and doctrines then leave.

Of course the more insidious reason is that they are purposed deceivers working for Satan.  Why not?  He is their brother and according to them the brother of Jesus.  They don’t see him the way he is explained in the Bible.  You have to remember we are dealing with an unreasonable crowd here.  Most of them have been so blinded by the devil that unless there is a miracle of regeneration worked in them they won’t even leave based on intellectual honesty and reason.  They will suspend them for the sake of their fictitious system of obtaining godhood.

Seriously, how many 2000 year old Biblical texts do we have to dig up before they say, “Hmm, perhaps the Bible is reliable and Joseph was a lying sack of cult.”  It is getting ri-freeking-diculous here folks.  They actually have to willfully close their eyes, ears, and minds to all of the evidence against their false prophet just to keep believing.  “I’m gonna be a god one day, I’m gonna be a god one day, I’m gonna be a god one day, I’m gonna be a god one day.”  Really? Come on!  That doesn’t sound a bit blasphemous or satanic to you?  Really!?  REALLY!!!???

  1. https://www.lds.org/manual/teachings-joseph-smith/chapter-17?lang=eng
  2. http://www.mormon.org/beliefs/articles-of-faith