We visited a Charismatic/Pentecostal/Messianic/Sabbath Keeping/Egalitarian/House church on 03/08/14
- How approachable/welcoming, is the Pastor before and/or after the service? The Pastor was out of town. His wife led the service, and a young woman gave the sermon.
- How friendly is the congregation? The congregation was friendly, and welcoming.
- How many congregants are there? There were approximately between 10-20 people there.
- How do they take the offering? A bag was passed.
- Where are they located? In Payette, Idaho at someone’s home.
- How is the service broke down between, prayers, worship, and sermon? It was a big mess. It was mostly, from what I could tell, all speaking in tongues, impromtu dancing, someone was doing flag spinning, another lady was doing some sort of tai chi looking dance with her eyes closed, a Jewish prayer shawl got whipped out, a lot of singing.
- What is the condition of their facilities? It was in someone’s home.
- What is the preaching style of their Pastor? The sermon was delivered by a young woman, who is a friend of ours. I am hesitant here. I don’t want to hurt her feelings, but she is inexperienced, and unqualified to be a Pastor. There was one Bible verse used for the entire service. It was misapplied, and out of context.
- Do they use a specific translation of the Bible, or prohibit any translations, if so why? They didn’t seem to prohibit any translations or promote any. Frankly, I didn’t see that many Bibles there at all.
- Do they have a web page? No web page. If so, is there a clear, orthodox, confession or statement of faith? No. I’m pretty sure there isn’t even a doctrinal consensus among the people that were there.
A note about Sabbath keepers, and the Messianic people all over the place, they need to stop and read Colossians 2:1-23! “1For I want you to know how great a struggle I have on your behalf and for those who are at Laodicea, and for all those who have not personally seen my face,2that their hearts may be encouraged, having been knit together in love, and attaining to all the wealth that comes from the full assurance of understanding, resulting in a true knowledge of God’s mystery, that is, Christ Himself,3in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.4I say this so that no one will delude you with persuasive argument.5For even though I am absent in body, nevertheless I am with you in spirit, rejoicing to see your good discipline and the stability of your faith in Christ.
6Therefore as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him,7having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith, just as you were instructed, and overflowing with gratitude.
8See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.9For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,10and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority;11and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;12having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.13When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,14having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.15When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him.
16Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day—17things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.18Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind,19and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.
20If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as,21“Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!”22(which all refer to things destined to perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men?23These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.
”Every moment, of every day, as a Christian, you are resting in the perfect work of Christ on the cross. You are experiencing the Sabbath rest every moment of your Christian life. Jesus fulfills all righteousness on our behalf. The early Church met and worshipped on Sundays. We can see this by reading the works of the early Church fathers as well as Acts.
In regards to egalitarianism; 1 Timothy 2:9-15 “ 9Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments,10but rather by means of good works, as is proper for women making a claim to godliness.11A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness.12But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.13For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve.14And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.15But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint.”
1 Timothy 3:1-15 “1It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine work he desires to do.2An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,3not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money.4He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity5(but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?),6and not a new convert, so that he will not become conceited and fall into the condemnation incurred by the devil.7And he must have a good reputation with those outside the church, so that he will not fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
8Deacons likewise must be men of dignity, not double-tongued, or addicted to much wine or fond of sordid gain,9but holding to the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience.10These men must also first be tested; then let them serve as deacons if they are beyond reproach.11Women must likewise be dignified, not malicious gossips, but temperate, faithful in all things.12Deacons must be husbands of only one wife, and good managers of their children and their own households.13For those who have served well as deacons obtain for themselves a high standing and great confidence in the faith that is in Christ Jesus.
14I am writing these things to you, hoping to come to you before long;15but in case I am delayed, I write so that you will know how one ought to conduct himself in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and support of the truth.”
Titus 1:5-16 “5For this reason I left you in Crete, that you would set in order what remains and appoint elders in every city as I directed you,6namely, if any man is above reproach, the husband of one wife, having children who believe, not accused of dissipation or rebellion.7For the overseer must be above reproach as God’s steward, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not addicted to wine, not pugnacious, not fond of sordid gain,8but hospitable, loving what is good, sensible, just, devout, self-controlled,9holding fast the faithful word which is in accordance with the teaching, so that he will be able both to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict.
10For there are many rebellious men, empty talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision,11who must be silenced because they are upsetting whole families, teaching things they should not teach for the sake of sordid gain.12One of themselves, a prophet of their own, said, “Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons.”13This testimony is true. For this reason reprove them severely so that they may be sound in the faith,14not paying attention to Jewish myths and commandments of men who turn away from the truth.15To the pure, all things are pure; but to those who are defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure, but both their mind and their conscience are defiled.16They profess to know God, but by their deeds they deny Him, being detestable and disobedient and worthless for any good deed.”
For the Pentecostals, Matthew 16:4 “4“An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign; and a sign will not be given it, except the sign of Jonah.” And He left them and went away.”
Repent, read your Bibles, pray, and worship God in obedience to His word. Why are you seeking experiences instead of the Lord? It seems like your faith revolves around the gifts that you allegedly have and your experiences with them rather than the word of God and His sovereign will. 1 Corinthians 8-13 “8Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away.9For we know in part and we prophesy in part;10but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away.11When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things.12For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known.13But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love.”
Take these words as loving correction. If you are at this group or part of it you need to leave and come under the authority of a Pastor from an orthodox denomination. This kind of errancy happens when you are not held accountable.
We visited Christian Life Fellowship or CLF 03/09/14.
- How approachable/welcoming, is the Pastor before and/or after the service? The Pastor was not at the front door greeting people nor was he after the service.
- How friendly is the congregation? The congregation was very friendly and welcoming.
- How many congregants are there? There were approximately between 100-125 people there.
- How do they take the offering? A bag was passed.
- Where are they located? They are located at 366 S.E. 5th St. Ontario, OR 97914, their phone number is (541)-889-7264
- How is the service broke down between, prayers, worship, and sermon? It seemed to be approximately 5% prayer, 60% worship, and 35% sermon.
- What is the condition of their facilities? The facilities were above average, there was no cross to be found in the sanctuary. The only cross I saw, was a small decorative one in the foyer. It was only about a foot long and hung on the wall as decoration.
- What is the preaching style of their Pastor? Horribly eisegetical, misapplied scripture… what he used of it. They are part of the Vineyard Movement, and John Wimber’s bad instruction.
- Do they use a specific translation of the Bible, or prohibit any translations, if so why? They didn’t seem to prohibit any translations or promote any.
- Do they have a web page? Yes, here is the link; http://www.clfontario.org/#/home If so, is there a clear, orthodox, confession or statement of faith? Here is the link to their, “What We Believe” page. http://www.clfontario.org/#/home/what-we-believe It was not as theologically clear and certain as I would like. They have a confused understanding of satan. They seem to see satan as almost an adversarial contender to God instead of one of His creations. It looks like they believe, “Replacement Theology.” They are also in need of some help on their pneumatology. Looking at the end of their belief statement it appears they got it from the vineyard movement associated with John Wimber. They are Christian, just too reliant on experience, and in dire need of Bible study. After they would say, “amen” in the service the entire congregation would give one loud clap. We felt like we were in the middle of a cult meeting.
Then the Pastor started talking about how when he was talking to Jesus. At 20 minutes and 35 seconds into his sermon he said, “I literally had the Lord say something to me, he says, well Doug I want to introduce you to the Holy Spirit.” Then at about 20:53 he says, “and so what happened was I literally this very Jewish looking person that’s in my mind as I’m connecting with Jesus when he says I want to introduce you to the Holy Spirit, here’s this kind a blonde haired surfer dude, “hey!” he’s just chillin’, just hangin'” then at 21:29 he says, “the person of the Holy Spirit he morphed in the coolest kind a sci-fi way I have ever seen, he morphed into like oil “hooo” and he would just smooth things out”
That was on top of God apparently literally telling him things. I’m not sure if I was pickin’ up what he was putin’ down if ya dig? I know he was well intentioned, but I’m wondering if maybe there is a better way? I’m not even going to get into the red velvet lined closet that Jesus treasures our pain in…